Like Zippette, the hard drive on our HP died. We bought a Mac Mini and never looked back. We don't take our computer when we leave the house so we don't need a laptop, although people I know who have Macbooks love them. The mini cost a few hundred bucks.

We use ours for the same basic stuff - surfing interwebs, Itunes, and photos (mostly of our kids that we relentlessly post on Facebook). We also have MS Office for the mac, which we got free from a friend. Runs Word, Excel, etc with no problems, and files can be used on PC's also with no problem. Runs fine with our old PC keyboard and mouse. We really don't need other peripherals for what we do. Commonly used software like Turbo Tax are always available in Mac versions for the same price as PC.

The only complaint I have is the ports are all on the back, meaning anytime we want to plug something in we have to do the reach-around/grope thing. That's fun in an elevator full of strangers, but not so much with a computer.

The same time we bought our Mac, my wife's family bought her grandmother a PC. A high-faloot'n fast one with all sorts of bells and whistles. Within a year it was completely unusable because she had no idea how to maintain it or update software. Now it does an excellent job of weighing down the computer desk and providing a home for dust.

Fucking McAfee OWNS your fucking computer -- don't you forget. You can tell it to scan only at 3 am or you can set it for manual or you can turn it off altogether, but the moment you have some urgent need to get a document done or send an email, it pops up to do a scan, gobbling all your RAM and turning your computer into an expensive paper weight for two hours.

Same with all the fucking Windows/MS updates. Updates on the Mac are simple, but when Office updates, it requires no fewer than a dozen clicks and confirmations and agreements and verifications. Do you want this on your hard drive or somewhere else? Are you sure? Okay. Press Okay if you're sure. Click Next for the next menu. You just clicked next -- are your sure? Confirm by clicking okay. Oops, your popup blocker was on. Please disable popups, quit your browser, reboot your computer, search for updates and begin again. Click OK if you want to begin again. Etc.

Wireless is another example. If I want Wi-fi somewhere, the Mac searches for it automatically. If it requires a passcode a window pops up for me to enter it. Done. Then when I return to that place, it remembers everything and signs on without me even doing anything. Meanwhile, everyone in the room with a PC is searching their Tools menu or configuring their Internet settings and rebooting, etc.

Do PCs have a backup program yet? My last Dell would only backup to itself, which was totally handy. Or you could manually drag and drop stuff, but it would copy everything over again instead of just updating what changed. Genius!

But just to clear up some misconceptions here:

Yeah, McAfee, and Symantec, and Norton, all blow. But the Windows security suite, whether in XP Service Pack 3 or Win7 are all excellent, and as long as you aren't doing stupid things like cruising sketchy websites with Internet Explorer, or opening attachments when you don't trust the source of said attachments (spoiler: don't ever do this), there's no reason you can't be as safe and secure on a Windows Machine as you would be on a Mac. And don't assume that Macs are 100% safe, either - an attitude of "I don't have to worry about security" is the easiest way to get yourself in trouble. Macs have plenty of security flaws, they just aren't as exploited as Windows flaws because Macs are a small percentage of the market.

As for Mac hardware reliability... where to start? It may have been more true a few years ago, but I've had plenty of first-hand experience with supposed "pro" Mac hardware that stuttered, crashed, failed, you name it, even on $9,500 workstations. The current gen Macbook Pros are rife with freezing and crashing issues. And long-term? GB may have had success with Macs in the past, but if you buy a Mac laptop today, don't expect it to make it out of year 3. That said, if you buy a POS $500 Windows laptop, you get what you pay for. People balk at $1,000 - $1,500 machines in this day of "GET THIS AWESOME PC FOR ONLY $48!!!!," but you do get what you pay for.

I'm also not sure where the wireless confusion comes in - on a Windows PC, you click the wireless icon, and select a network from a list of available options. Your preferred choices are stored in a list in case you visit that place again, so it works exactly the same as gb says wireless works on the Mac.

Same with Windows updates - if you don't feel comfortable with micromanaging the software updates, one click tells Windows to do all the necessary updates for you, and all you'll have to do is either restart your computer or give an OK to install the updates.

Finally, backups - there are about 1,000 different options for Windows PCs that have been available for a long time, many free, and many which will backup to an attached drive or a network drive. They'll run at 3 in the morning or whenever you tell them to. And there's always system restore which, in my experience, does a surprisingly good job of taking your computer back to the last known working configuration.

Anyway, I'm not advocating one approach over another. I've used both types of computers extensively, and the only answer is do some research, and decide if the benefits of one OS fit your needs better than another. Just don't fall victim of fanboy hype of "Windoze SUX0RZ!" or "Macs are overpriced elitist crap."

Oh, and make sure the company you buy from has a reputation for good customer service. And get a 3-year warranty.

Toodles,

ford_prefect

I took the hard drive in and I paid $100 for someone to tell me it was basically "empty" that there was nothing on it at all. Not being very savvy about these things, I just had to buck up, fork over the cash and then go back to my car and cry about all the things I had never backed up. How does it all just "disappear"?

The man who gladly took my $100 told me he reads all kind of "techie" magazines, and computers, like cars have good models and bad models just as car companies do. He recommended an ACER ASUS 15.6 inch laptop. I have never even heard of ACER, so I took the information and left.

So, I now have no data and no "real" computer, other than this crappy Dell Inspiron 2500, circa 1999. At least it still works.

Mr. Z and I are still debating Mac vs. PC and everyone provides an excellent argument. We wanted to spend around $1000, and it doesn't look like we could get a Mac for that price.

I so hate making these decisions.

>On a more serious note, and although they make a good
>product, the big reason I dislike Apple (other than their
>dishonesty about the PC "failures") is that they practice
>what's known as "proprietary lock-in". They don't allow any
>other companies to play in their sandboxes without their OK
>(and outstretched hand). They force you to use their
>hardware and software and actively work to limit your
>options.

As you stated and based on the above, you're an industry person. Ford posts PS messages in html code. Both of you very likely have different needs/expectations/uses for a computer that are way beyond that of the average user. Like in your examples below, what normal person needs a terabyte of hard drive space and 8 GB of RAM?

From her(?) description, Zippette seems like a recreational user. I don't think she'll need to worry about extensive peripherals, compatibility with esoteric software, etc. And to Ford, someone who writes html code for shits-n-giggles probably doesn't have a problem ever getting onto wi-fi and has successfully configured his setting for virus protection, backups and updates, etc. All I know is what I see every day in meetings and coffee shops -- PC users unable to connect.

Also if Ford's using fucking Internet Explorer, then nothing he says is credible.

I'm not an expert, I'm not in the industry. I'm someone who has used PCs all my life until 2.5 years ago and Apple has changed everything. In all that time, my system has never crashed and I've never lost a Word document to crashing. Sometimes Safari froze up, but that has been fixed. My computer boots in under a minute.

When I used to call Dell Tech support I'd typically be on hold for an hour-plus, and would be transferred multiple times. In three years, my Dells would need almost every single part replaced: the screen, the keyboard/trackpad, motherboard, processor, video card, hard drive, battery and power adaptor. Some of them more than once. The dudes at the genius bar are true geniuses. And they give a shit about you. And they're not talking on a cheap cell phone from India.

And the Mac comes with exquisitely elegant and easy-to-use photo and video programs. And maybe the best thing of all. If I see a photo on the NYT or in an email or on Facebook? I just click on it and drag to my desktop. I am three times more productive than plagiarists who have to right click, save as, and download.

For the vast majority of users, Apple is going to provide a much simpler, hassle-free experience. The extra $ are worth it.

Firefox and Chrome, my friend. IE only for corporate apps because my place of business sometimes still thinks it's 2001.

With regard to the wifi thing, you know what usually ends up being the problem? Third-party wifi management apps installed by equipment manufacturers. Dell's horrid wltray and other wifi managers, IBM's stupid Thinkvantage, etc. The basic Windows wifi manager is so damn simple, it's maddening when someone thinks they can do it better. Windows Security also doesn't really need configuration out of the box - since XP Service Pack 3, it works fine as long as you regularly update.

As for the service/reliability issues, it varies vastly from manufacturer to manufacturer, model to model, and CS rep to CS rep. My experience with Dell was the complete opposite of yours. Except for a hard drive failure (which I saw coming a mile away), my dearly departed Latitude lived for 5.5 years without a single problem. When the drive failed, I chatted with their service people online for 15 minutes to get a brand new one. So it really depends.

My same conclusion - find a computer that suits your needs. If you get a Mac, spend the extra money for the MacBook Pro. If you get a Windows Machine, don't be tempted by the cheap POS plastic machines that cost $400. But make sure that you buy from a company with good customer service. Seriously. It should be in your top 3 factors when buying a computer.

Toodles,

ford_prefect

I'll buy that -- Dells come loaded with so much extra shit it's ridiculous. If you don't know a lot about computers, a "closed" system, or whatever, like the Mac is a better choice. With the PC, anytime you go and do something, someone on the Internet is pushing you to download their version of it and you end up with 3 different DVD players (none of which work) and a redundant app or two for just about everything.

>My experience with Dell was the complete opposite of
>yours. Except for a hard drive failure (which I saw coming a
>mile away), my dearly departed Latitude lived for 5.5 years
>without a single problem.

I always had Inspirons. Maybe that was the problem. Like when I had a car, I got the Civic instead of the Accord. But shame on Dell sales people pushing the Inspiron on me when I really didn't know what I needed, described my needs to them, and they sold me a series of underperforming machines.

My brother worked a while for IBM and even though he got a discount, he stopped buying them for himself and his kids because he said they sucked so bad. I know people whose HPs crapped out after two years of moderate use.

It's such a crapshoot. Fucking Dell offers (or as recently as a few years ago offered) like a dozen different machines with no real differentiation among them. Really confusing and f'd up. Apple has done a great job of streamlining/rationalizing their product line.

Agreed on upgrading to the pro. I will never type again on a non-backlit keyboard. And the newest ones are total unibody construction or something. What Apple's good at is they make you want to upgrade and buy the latest WAY before your old product has worn out, because they just keep getting better and better and prettier and prettier.

Always.

>As you stated and based on the above, you're an industry
>person.

Yes and no...although I have done all those things and been to lots of industry events, my main focus has always been helping people and companies get actual practical use from their computers and software. Doing things better and faster than they could without. (I'm a business/marketing consultant and have had clients in the computer industry at various times. And have also ended up becoming the de facto "IT guy" for other clients at times.)

Most computer industry people are completely incapable of connecting with non-geeks and understanding what their experience is like; I have always tried to bridge that gap. And I have dealt with lots and lots of novices.

>Like
>in your examples below, what normal person needs a terabyte
>of hard drive space and 8 GB of RAM?

Well, if you have a sizable music library or if you take a lot of photographs, for example. Or if you work in an industry with large files (like graphic design). No such thing as too much storage!

When it comes to RAM, it is actually one of the most important contributors to a computer's speed/performance. Not having to shift data back and forth from the hard drive makes a BIG difference. You always want to go for maximum RAM.

Also keep in mind that the need for both storage and RAM only go up over time, never down. As new versions of software come out, their demands for RAM always go up. And storage needs also only increase as we use computers for more and more stuff.

>getting onto wi-fi and
>has successfully configured his setting for virus
>protection, backups and updates, etc. All I know is what I
>see every day in meetings and coffee shops -- PC users
>unable to connect.

There's no shortage of people who have no idea how to use their computers. There's really nothing complicated about finding wireless connections on a Windows machine. I have mine set up so that it automatically connects to home or any number of offices I might be at regularly. I don't even shut off my computer...just throw it in the bag and pull it out again when I get there. Not even a click required to connect.

>Also if Ford's using fucking Internet Explorer, then nothing
>he says is credible.

You might be surprised to learn that IE8 has been winning the security comparisons between browsers. And it now shares most of the favourite features of other browsers.

>When I used to call Dell Tech support I'd typically be on
>hold for an hour-plus, and would be transferred multiple
>times. In three years, my Dells would need almost every
>single part replaced: the screen, the keyboard/trackpad,
>motherboard, processor, video card, hard drive, battery and
>power adaptor. Some of them more than once. The dudes at the
>genius bar are true geniuses. And they give a shit about
>you. And they're not talking on a cheap cell phone from
>India.

Wow...either you had some major lemons or you abused those puppies pretty bad! Out of seven laptops Castigatress and I have owned over the years, I've had ONE hardware problem.

>If I see a photo on the NYT or in an email or on Facebook? I
>just click on it and drag to my desktop. I am three times
>more productive than plagiarists who have to right click,
>save as, and download.

You can do the same thing on Windows. Just right-click and drag to your desktop.

>For the vast majority of users, Apple is going to provide a
>much simpler, hassle-free experience. The extra $ are worth
>it.

Like Ford says, if you're happy...

I think one of the biggest problems is really bad salesgeeks who give bad advice and assume everyone is a gamer/hacker like they are. Then there is the "friend who knows computers" who usually doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks. And (as you say in your post below) lots of choices being pushed at you by manufacturers and websites alike. In all these cases, saying NO and keeping it simple is your best bet!

I used to be a "closed infrastructure is bad!!!" type, but for some people, it works, or they don't care. If the solution fits their needs, then it's the right choice. And some people do find the Mac to be easier to use for most tasks.

Toodles,

ford_prefect

...reasonable sentiment.

I just like to make sure people know the difference.

As for the trademark symbol, that is just superscript (like you use when creating numbered footnotes)...which again, most civilized software has a button on the toolbar that turns that on or off at a click.

Why you think Option-G or Option-2 is somehow more intuitive is beyond me. Nothing particularly logical about it; you still have to memorize the code.

Nice try though. Your continued zealotry is duly noted.

(I'm beginning to think that your real problem with the PC is that nobody taught you how to use it.)